AGASTYA-NADIA - REPLY TO M. S. RISBUD: HUMAN ERROR - II

At the request of Dr. Prakash Rao and M.S.Risbud and also many of my friends, I wrote an article in January 1996 issue of IS about how the astrologers predict reading a palm leaf.

M. S. Risbud was not satisfied with the article and he wrote me a letter dated 2.2.1996 that he was disappointed with it as it had not answered his question. We have published this letter in April 1996 issue of IS with comments that all his points have been answered in the article. I asked him to go through it minutely. I also informed him that if he wants, I would. pin-point the appropriate sentences. I also had sent, him a post card dated 7.2.1996 explaining the above. In his card of 12.2.1996 he informed me that he did not find any answer to his questions.

On 10.4.1996 he sent me an article titled "The Hoax of Naadi Jyothisham" which was published in May 1996 issue of IS. Reading it I thought he had caught the point explained in my article on Naadi Jyothisham.

My presumption was not correct. He again wrote a letter date 23.5.7996 which is published in August 1996 issue of IS. I am wondering how the appropriate answers to his questions escaped his notice. M.S.Risbud is not an ordinary person. He has mastered Astrology and is capable of exposing astrology from. the base itself. Some of his articles exposing astrology have been published in IS. More over two of his articles have been selected for incorporating them in our book "ASTROLOGY - SCIENCE OR EGO TRIP?" edited by Mrs. Margaret Bhatty and me. We are giving below again, his questions and the answers from my article "Agasthya Nadi Jyotisham - How they predict reading a palm leaf" published in the January 1996 issue of IS.

Letter dated 3.10.1995 from M. S. Risbud published in Jan.1996 issue of IS.

Question 1: The intriguing question is that how the names of the persons appear on these strips. (Page 12, line 4)

Answer: (Page 13, line 11): Later it was found that their names and their parents names were there in the horoscope and other details were collected through subtle questioning.

Q-2: (Letter dated 2.2.1996 published in IS April 1996 page 14):

As you have said, inspite of your exchange of horoscopes, the astrologer gave your past 100% correct. You have not offered any explanation for his feat.

A: (Page 13 line 11 quoted in 1st question and Page 14 line 17: After asking a few questions and getting my answers, he went inside and brought a palm leaf and read from it my past life which was 100% correct, but the reading was made on a wrong horoscope that of the lady doctor.

Page 15 line 22: The fact is that at the time of subtle questioning by the astrologers or by their stooges who also sit amongst you as persons who have come to read their horoscopes, the palm leaves are prepared.

Q-3: He recognised the profession and name of your friend i.e. the lady doctor. (page 14 line 5)

A: Page 14, line. 23: The lady doctor gave him the horoscope which she had in her hand. He put some questions and went inside and brought another palm leaf. Her name and her profession mentioned by him were correct. ( Read the answer for question 2 also along with this.)

Q-4: (page 14 line 6): To me it makes no material difference if he described her as a paediatrician instead of a gynec.

A: It makes lots of difference as he was predicting about her based on my horoscope which has proved that his predictions are not based on stars or planetary positions. The following sentences in article explains it:

Page 14, line 19: but the reading was made or a wrong horoscope of the lady doctor.

Page 14, line 9: and we had exchanged our horoscopes deleting our names and our parents name.

Page 14 line 30: We could nat suppress our laughter as he was making prediction on my horoscope.

Q-5: Instead of laughing at the astrologer I would have been astonished by his skill of fathoming these facts. (page 14 line 7)

A: Read again page 13, line 11 , page 15, line 22, page 14, line 17 which explains how he collects information. There is no need for astonishment in this as it is a simple trick which is practised by all astrologers to collect information and tell it as if they have found it by reading the horoscope.

Q-6: How these nadi-astrologists manage to get into possession of facts about you? That is the million-dollar question; you are silent on this issue. That does not help, me in the least, (page 15 line 1)

A: Read the above answers once again and you will find how the nadi-astrologers collected past information.

Q-7: (Page 15 line 4): Further on, you have mentioned that you snatched the palm-leaf from the hands of the astrologer and you did not find any mention about the person who entered with sandals and de-sanctified the room. This means that you were able to read the script and language of the palm-strip. If you are able to decipher the contents of these palm-strips then I will arrange to send you the photo-copy of such strip which Mr. Oka had sent to Dr. Jayant Narlikar, and which was displayed by Dr. Dabholkar in Pune, inviting Tamil knowing persons to read it.

A: (Page 15 line 1 in my reply): If I get good photo copies of the palm leaf inscriptions I can let you know what they contain. If I get a palm leaf, I could also check up the leaf by carbon dating to know its age.

But you have no cared to send the same.

Q-8: (Page 15, line 14): Merely throwing challenges to the nadi astrologers does not suffice. Positive efforts are necessary to explode the myth of the nadis. The real contents of a few samples of nadis, scrutinised carefully, will yield the clues, Can you help me in this regard?

A: It was not throwing challenges and this is what I wrote (Page15 line 31): If Dorai Subbu Rathiriam, Agastya Nadi Nilayam, 36 New State Bank Colony, West Tambaram, Madras 600 045 or any other is prepared to read the palm leaves of 10 horoscopes which we would give him personally and if he would give 80% correct information from the palm leaves about them, and prove that what he had told is there in the palm leaves, we would accept that Agastya Naadi Jyotisham is a science. Before we hand him over the horoscopes he should take us to the room where the inscribed palm leaves are stored and after going through the horoscopes he should pick out the 10 palm leaves and then allow us to read the contents. The correct information on these persons will be kept sealed with us in safe custody and will be shown after reading the palm leaves to compare whether what is written in the palm leaves are true.

This explodes the myth that they are taking the palm leaves written by Agasthya, and proves that they are written after subtle questioning as mentioned in lines above quoted. This is not a mere challenge and this request will never be accepted by any Agasthya Naadi Astrologer as the palm leaves are prepared after gathering information by subtle questioning.

August 1996 IS - Page 46:

Q-9: (Page 46, line 3): Andhashraddha Nirmulan Samiti sent its investigator to Madras in March 1996. He did excellent work and found out the 'secret' about the so-called uncanny power, of the Nadi astrologers of knowing the past history of the clients. He secretly used a tape-recorder and recorded the hundreds of questions put to him by the Nadi-readers.

The ANS has published a very detailed article in the magazine "Vartha Pathra" (May 1996) which covers all the experiences of that Investigator (Shri Omkar Patil).

It is through this skilful questioning that the Nadi-readers come to know all the past-and present-history of the client.

A: This is also what I explained as quoted in the answers to your above questions. I am wondering how these lines you missed.

A: If I had lots of unfilled pages I could write much mores But it is unnecessary to explain how they do it.

Q-10: (page 46, line13): We expected from you this kind of information.

A: I cannot copy others, I can write only in my own way.

Q-11: (page 46 line 13): Your article merely makes a veiled suggestion, that the person who took you (and the lady doctor) to the nadi-astrologer at Salem, may have divulged all the past details about yourself and about the lady doctor also.

A: Will you kindly let me know the page and line wherein I have made veiled suggestion as mentioned above? Another mistake you have made is in page 14 line 6 of your letter in April 1996 issue: To me it makes no material difference if he described her as a paediatrician instead of a gynec.

What I wrote is as follows:

Her Name and profession mentioned by him were correct. At this time she questioned him as to what was her speciality as a medical doctor and he replied "Gynaecology". She immediately corrected him that, she was a paediatrician and he started interpreting gynaecology as something to do with child birth and so paediatrics also was included in the word,

These mistakes prove as to how much attention you have given in reading my article and why you missed some sentences which were the reply to your questions. You can check up the article in January 1996 issue and see if the lines I have mentioned are there.

Q-13: But this manner of getting information can be of no use in the case of most clients, (page 46 line 17)

A: I have not mentioned anything of the sort in my article. Could you kindly pin point the line and let me know?

Q-14: Your article does not make any reference to the hundreds of queries that are made by the nadi-reader. Therefore your articles was not of any help to me. (page 46 line 18)

A: As the questions he puts to his clients would be different to each person, describing the questions put by the nadi astrologers have no significance. That is why I wrote very clearly in page 13 line 11, page 14 line 17, page 15 line, 22 page 14 line 23 that he collects information by asking subtle questions and the palm leaf is prepared

By testing the palm leaves three things could be investigated:

1. The age of the palm leaf

2. Whether what the astrologer read is really inscribed or, the palm leaf.

3. Whether the inscription on the palm leaf is old tamil script.

Q-15: The two points that I have made out in my article are quite different from what you have written in your article. I have not caught any point from your article. It is Sri Omkar Patil who has caught the point. (Page 46 line 21)

A: You have not asked this question in your letter of 3.10.1995 published in January 1996 IS.

I have already mentioned on page 15 line 22 that the palm leaves are prepared by the astrologer's accomplice sitting inside while he puts subtle questions and get the answers.

2. The palm leaves collection which they have are the palm leaves prepared for their customers, and not of the new customers.

3. The Naadi readers do not use the same meagre stock over and over again. A new palm leaf is prepared when a new one comes and it is this which is added to the stock.

4. With the available stock of palm leaves they cannot give the prediction of a new customer. They only have stocks of uninscribed palm leaves made to look old and then used for inscription of a new customer after getting answers by subtle questioning. I am also giving reply to the letter dated 12.2.1996

Q-1: I wished to know this thing from you: You have mentioned that the nadi-astrologer told your past 100% correct. What explanation can you give for this. How did that fellow get all the information about you? In your article I did not find any answer to this.

A: The fact is that you have not cared to read the article minutely.

They are:

1. Later it was found that their names and their parents name were there in the horoscope and other details were collected through subtle questioning

2. _After asking a few questions and getting 2 answers_, he went inside and brought a palm leaf and read from it my pastlife which was 100% correct.

3. The fact is that at the time of subtle questioning by the astrologers or by their stooges who also sit amongst you as persons who have come to read their horoscopes the palm leaves are prepared, and read. If you give wrong answer, the reading also will be wrong. If you give another's horoscope as yours the reading will be on you and not on the horoscope if they have collected information about you. Except the names and your profession, most of the things they tell about you will not be on the palm leaf and what they read would be generally prediction which will be true to everyone.

Q-2: Secondly I wanted to know whether you are able to read the contents of the nadi script? It is said that the script is ancient form of Tamil. Is this true? Can you read the contents on the xerox photo copy that is with Dr. Dabholkar? The original palm-leaf strip can very well be a copy made out from some older palm-leaf. Thus the idea of carbon serves no purpose.

A: I have already replied in April 1996 issue of IS that I would be happy to get the text on it, read and also get it tested for its age, if you have the palm leaf.

There are no originals of the palm leaves. It is prepared when a new customer comes, but it would look old through chemical treatment. But the age can be known by carbon dating.

Q-3: The age of any "original" strip cannot be more than 1700 years at the most. This is certain because Rashis are mentioned in the contents. Rashis came into use in our astrology after Shaka year - 300 or so.

A: When the Nadi astrologers claim that the palm leaves are prepared thousands of year ago by Agasthya, carbon dating would help to know the age and would prove the falsity of their claims.


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